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First CB build-- seeking help
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Fingerz
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 89
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:45 pm    Post subject: First CB build-- seeking help Reply with quote

Hello

I am in the process of constructing my very first CB and am very excited. It's don Crofts' basic model -- http://www.metatech.org/cloudbuster_&_orgone_generator.html

I am quite confused as to a few aspects of the build though. First I am confused as to where the DT crystals are supposed to be placed. Would they be placed right in the base of the CB and then the caps placed underneath, or am I way off?? Second, do i cap the pipes at the very top or leave them open?? It seems to me that if I leave them open water will eventually fill the pipes. Would this affect the CB in any way Also, if I wanted to, could I simply add extensions to the pipes afterwards to increase the range of the CB. For example, adding a 1' or 2' extension to each of the six original 6' long pipes QuestionQuestion

Thanks in advance
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spade
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Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 424

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For each of the 6 6' pipes, cut them into a 5' and 1' length. Cap the 1' pipe and put in the orgonite matrix. When cured, put the crystals in the 1' pipes, add the coupler to the 1' pipe, then add the 5' pipe to the coupler, making the length 6' again. You do not cap the top. Water will get into the pipes - just tip and pour out occassionally. You can make extensions to the 6' length, which would extend the range. Don has done "moonbusting" this way.

-Terry
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simple_simon
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Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Location: south africa

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for that, i had the same questions.

just a few more, the wooden templates that holds the pipes in place when pouring the organite mix in, the one that is put in the base, that stays there permanently, the middle and top ones don't? am i correct with that statement.

the base pipes (30 centimeter) are sealed, and the crystals glued to the inside of them, no orgonite must get inside of the pipes, is this correct?
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spade
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Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 424

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All templates stay in place indefinately.

I've found the best way to get the pipes as vertical as possible is to position the pipes into the bottom template, put the assembly into the bucket, add metal, pour resin, mix, then assemble the rest of the pipes and templates. All three templates help prevent the pipes from twisting out of vertical alignment.

BTW, foamcore is much easier to carve a template by using a utility knife and much more economical.

The base pipes are sealed with caps and taped to prevent resin oozing in. You don't want resin in the base pipes. The crystals could be glued inside, but I just stood mine on end. You could even build a small SBB coil at the base to help it sit right, but it's not necessary.

-Terry
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simple_simon
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Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Location: south africa

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was thinking isn't it easier to fill the bucket in sections.

first you put a base layer in place, then put the bottom template in and place the pipes in then fill to 1/3 of bucket and place the middle template in to hold the pipes in position, then place the upper template in to hold the pipes in position also. let it cure.

then remove the middle and top templates and place the rest of the resin in and put the top template in again to hold the pipes in place (theoretically this shouldn't be needed as the rest is cured). then leave it to cure....once cured all you got to do is join the longer 5' pipes in place and put the top holder thing on.

this would leave the base of the cb as "pure" as posible...only the one wooden template in the bottom not all 3.

just a thought
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karen
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Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 533
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spade wrote:
All templates stay in place indefinately.


That's interesting.. Don's instructions say to remove the 2nd one. Once the resin is cured, wouldn't that one be unnecessary?

Also about not getting resin into the pipes.. I made a note of something Laozu wrote: "The negative end of the crystal should rest on the "S" of the coil. I generally place BBs or metal shavings around the crystal and pour resin just up to the top of the crystal in each pipe, to hold the crystal vertical."

That's why we were planning to use resin instead of glue, but glue would probably be a lot easier! More thoughts on that?

Karen
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Fingerz
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 89
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the info. i must be dense though, cause i just can't understand where the crystals are supposed to be placed. are they supposed to be placed at the top of the 6, 1 foot long base pipes where the couplers and extensions are to be added? or at the very bottom where the caps go? thank you.

Fingerz
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spade
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Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 424

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The purpose of the templates is to hold the pipes in place. If the pipes would stay in place on their own accord, there would be no need for the templates. The reason I say the templates stay indefinately is because my experience has shown me the pipes will move, hence the need for the templates to stay indefinately.

I don't want to speak for Laozu. If I had to guess, the description sounds like he secures the crystal in the base pipe, surrounded by the resin/metal matrix and sitting on an SBB coil. I suppose one could even build an orgonite plug like Ryan McGinty's EP and place that in each pipe of the CB. All of them would probably work but I don't know if one is more effective than the other and if so, how much so. I think Don's instruction is pared down to make construction as easy as possible. He's all for dissemination through simplicity, ya know. Smile

When I built my first CB, I couldn't wrap my head around it either. I'm pretty dense when it comes to most subjects. However, what helped me was seeing the template and construction plans which I have put online for anyone who needs a little boost understanding.

http://terry.fiske.ky/cbtemplate.pdf
http://terry.fiske.ky/cbplans.pdf

-Terry
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Laozu
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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 214
Location: Palouse Hills

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the templates are to hold the pipes in place so they all are more or less parallel and point straight up. Once the resin hardens, the templates are no longer necessary. It is usually not possible to remove the lower one, but if the upper one is not stuck into the resin it can, and probably should be removed.

The ONLY coils I use with my CBs are "little secret coils" a la Cesco. When making your first CB, if you don't have these, and you probably don't for they are hard to get and even harder to make, I recommend using no coils. As Spade says, SIMPLICITY is the word here. Many more CBs have been made worse by adding extras by beginners than have been made better.

Resin or not in pipes? If you put no resin in the pipes, and insert the crystals at the bottom of the short pipes with a section of hose or something similar for filler, the crystals can be taken out later if they need or are desired to be changed.

Putting resin in the the pipes around the crystals is not good, unless you can put shavings or BBs around the crystals. If there is room for the metal, I usually do it this way, pouring metal and resin to the top of the crystal. I live in a cold climate, and this prevents the water from getting around the crystal and freezing in the winter. But this is just personal preference.

DTs are best here, but if you cannot find DTs, STs will work. If you use STs however, make sure the negative end of the STs is down. This is the rough, non-terminated end of the ST.

I haven't used glue Karen, but my instinct is not to use it. There are different kinds of glue, and the odds seem pretty high that there would be some ingredient in it that would weaken the working. Of course this is just a guess.
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spade
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Joined: 24 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for clearing that up, Laozu. I didn't put 2 and 2 together about the indefinate templates until you mentioned it, but now it makes sense for my first CB - the pipes are cured in a slightly twisted position, hence the need for the templates to keep them straight! It's good to know even an year old alumni such as myself can still learn something new. Smile

-Terry
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karen
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Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 533
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, thanks for that clarification! We do have coils from Cesco. Today's the day, and Susan and I had decided last night that she would glue the crystals in and have the pipes all prepared that way, so I think that's already done.

Don's original instructions called for gluing the crystals to the pipes (without coils), so I'm going on the assumption that a little bit of glue should be okay.

I guess we'll see as we go along if the 2nd template should (or can be) removed.. trying to visualize it brings up questions that I'm sure will become clear once we're actually doing it.

Thanks again for everyone's input!

Karen
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john
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Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 119
Location: SW Herefordshire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:16 pm    Post subject: Cut crystals Reply with quote

Laozu, does it matter if the crystal has been cut? I can get nice DTs like that for CBs http://www.manchesterminerals.co.uk/acatalog/shop.html?http%3A//www.ma nchesterminerals.co.uk/acatalog/Wands___Pendulums.html&CatalogBody

Double-terminated QUARTZ Point Ref: QtzDT
Highly polished natural Rock Crystal Quartz fashioned into hexagonal faceted 'wands' with a point termination on each end. Natural 'features' of the stone can be clearly seen in the form of internal veils, swirls and sometimes 'rainbow' stress patterns.
Average size 12cms long x 2cms diameter.
Popular with alternative therapists.
See also domed-end massage wands in this section of our on-line catalogue.

Those wands, by the way, are what you use to shift assemblage points, one end pointed, one rounded.
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WHALE Orgone

"Self-importance is man's greatest enemy."--Don Juan
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Laozu
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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 214
Location: Palouse Hills

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, I looked at the photos on the link, and the cut DTs did not look bad there. I don't like to commit to an opinion until I see actual specimens though.

~Laozu
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drew
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 140
Location: Lakemont, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject: still missing a CB forum Reply with quote

I'm glad for this topic and thread here for various reaasons but mainly because it's what I miss the most about the old CB forum - ongoing dialogue and Q & A on building CBs.

Having recently donated my TCB to pittsburgh, I'm preparing to make another for my new home. It's nice to be able to rely on the past building experiences but at the same time, without wanting to stray too far from the "if you ask/speculate about it, you are obligated to build it, test it and report on it" rule, there remains some unanswered and lingering questions.

#1, regarding the end of the pipes that get positioned at the very bottom of the base of the CB - is it essential that these be capped? I have read some discourse various places that suggests uncapped pipes, especially ones that actually protrude a bit from the bottom of the base, improves both the earth-grounding and POR/DOR conductance of the CB.

Knowing that this question strays beyond the basic CB-building forumula, I'm nonetheless taking the risk in asking it; Laozu and or all others, any input either way on leaving the bottom pipes uncapped AND having them protrude (about the length of a pipe cap) through the bottom of the base?

With this design, the bottoms of the pipe will literally stick into the earth a bit when the CB is positioned and placed into operation? Some people thinking of answering this question may in turn lead to additional questions before they can answer, so in an effort to stay ahead of this, rest assured, I've developed a method so that the bottom of the pipes can easily be set into the base so that they end up exposed and uncapped IE> sticking out a bit from the bottom of the base of orgonite. This method still allows me the option to later add caps to the ends; it also allows easy access to the bottoms of the pipes for doing maintenance on the crystals. The short answer secret to this method - plaster of paris.

#2, regarding templates, has anyone else ever toyed with the idea of making orgonite templates? Again, using plaster of paris, I can easily manage to make apporpirately shaped molds (templates), then fill these with traditional basic orgonite - metal, resin and possibly some stones. The biggest reason I continue to hold off on this idea is the uncertainty of how this additional orgonite in places where orgonite normally does not exist with the traditional standard CB design - especially at the stabalizing template used near the top of the CB, may impact the operation of the CB.

#2B, I currently have 4 of Cesco's Little Secret Coils left over from a purchase I made from him last year; one of these has a small ST glued to the S on the one end, and yes, the rough (negative) end of the ST is the surface that's glued to the coil. Question I have here is, will it do any harm to make a 6-pipe TCB such that only 3 (or perhaps 4) of the pipes contain LSC-coiled cyrtals, and the remaning pipes have naked crystals? I'm sorta stuck between trying to get the new CB built with parts already on hand, versus the delay, time and expense in ordering additional coils from Cesco. It's also that time of year when there is a race ongoing - between me trying to squeeze in a few more pours, and old-man weather turning into temps that are not conducive to pouring.

EDIT

#3, those of us who pour are often looking for ways to avoid wasting resin. When I made my first TCB late last summer, I tried an experiment of sorts. In an effort to use up the last bits of wet resin, I painted it onto the outsides of the pipes near the top. After nearly 12 months now, I can attest that this has reduced how quickly the pipes weather/corrode. At the time, I did not have enough left over resin to cover all 6 pipes from top to bottom, so it was just the top portions that got coated. These months later, I've been left wondering if this thin coating of resin on the pipes has added any sort of positive OR negative effect since it constitutes a thin layer of insulation on the outside of the pipes...... ?

I also thoroughly coated (including the pipe openings) the upper stabalzer template and can attest that, thus far, this has prevented the wooden template from beginning to rot due to exposure to outdoor. On the very first CB I made in April 04, I did not stray far at all from the basic designs, and I noticed within a few months the upper stabalizer wooden template was beginning to show wear - the layers of plywood were beginning to buckle and rot from exposure.

Thanks all.

-drew
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Laozu
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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 214
Location: Palouse Hills

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You ask good questions Drew. I cannot intelligently offer a full answer on any of them, without dfoing some experiments. However we just made new CB in Kyoto without caps on the end, which is working quite well. We just covered the bottom holes with tape, put in our crystals with some metal up to the tops of the crystals, and poured resin to the tops of the crystals. But in this case we did not extend the pipe through the bottem of the base, but rather placed them about an inch and a half above the bottom of the base.

I like your idea of putting resin on the templates for preservation. Sounds better than paint. Could post a photo of the CB which has the resin on the pipes?

~Laozu
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